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Fipel
11 Jul 2024
Controlling heavy equipment with an ESP32, stepper motors, and linear actuators
Thanks for posting the following comment...



Awesome project!

Poke your head at my little site (link in my profile) and if you think it's along the right track get few ESPs and I'll help you make a quick n'dirty test of concept in a jiffy :-)



in response to https://www.reddit.com/r/esp32/comments/1dxz0qa/comment/lco12rw/ which is a post I created on Reddit a couple of days ago.

Thanks. I appreciate your offer. I have a couple of ESP32 development boards, breadboards, wires, and some other components.
Gizmo
12 Jul 2024

My pleasure!

I've got annoyed reading the replies, no sense of adventure left in people and no one to give you a proper advice so I thought to invite you here (didn't fancy posting what I thought of some answers there and getting banned...again :-)

You clearly know the risks to yourself and if you kill few potatoes in the process so what, it's all in the name of progress and I have a feeling it's more to do with your own health & safety operating that damn digger.

Anywho, I think most of what you have mentioned is doable, don;'t know if it would be industrial strength (although no reason why not if it's tested properly) but at least before you piss money in the wind you can have a proof of concept quickly.

The biggest enemy with this concept is going to be latency, but as they say, there are many ways to peel a potato and I've designed ChipChop to have many peelers ;-) Trust me, what you want to achieve is much simpler that some stuff I work on.

I know you hate engineering but if you don't mind getting your hands a wee bit dirty for an hour you will be able to see how multi-ESP communication can work. Don't need anything special just a bunch of ESP32 (don't even need a breadboard or wires) and I am happy to guide you step by step.

Here's an example although what you need is even simpler as you just need the computer interface for control: https://chipchop.io/tutorial_page/?smart_actions
Don't worry if it all looks too simple, the tutorials are just very basic demos of the functionality and just demonstrate the use of the phone app for control and built in "no-code" tools.

Let me know if you want to have a play, just request access (big button at the bottom of the main page on https://chipchop.io) and I'll set you up a Dev Console and we can take it from there.

All the best

G

p.s. To all ChipChoppers that are lurking around, have a read at Mr @Fipel Reddit post mentioned above, pretty interesting stuff he wants to build
Fipel
13 Jul 2024

First a few quicks asides.


FIRST ASIDE
I failed to receive an email notification indicating that you had responded to me in this forum. However, because I made a note to check for a response “ manually” I saw that you had responded to me. Perhaps I forgot to check the box to receive replies. It seems to me that it should be checked by default.


SECOND ASIDE
Also, because I was unable to copy the text of your response with my mouse (I tried yet failed, both in Firefox and Google Chrome on Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon), in order to copy the text of the response which you sent me (so that I could paste it below), I right clicked with my mouse to choose to view page source, found the HTML code, copied it into ChatGPT and, finally, had ChatGPT parse it for me.


THIRD ASIDE
2003 just called: they want their ugly forum UI/UX back. Why not use a static site generator such as Astro or 11ty which you can host for free on, for example, Cloudflare Pages or Netlify?


FOURTH ASIDE
I'm not sure which forum software you are currently using for this project but, if Discourse (forum software) seems like too much of a hassle to install and/or requires too many resources, then, if you care about UI/UX, Flarum (forum software) seems like it might be a better choice than the forum software which you're currently using.


At least to my eyes https://forum.chipchop.io/ proudly proclaims with a harsh shrill scream (yes I am invoking artistic license to mix my metaphors): wonky, indy software project you (Mr. potential user) shouldn’t waste your time with, because the dev behind it will soon give up on. In other words, I am concerned that your potential users might be put off by this site’s ridiculous UI/UX dumpster fire.


End of asides.




>> I've got annoyed reading the replies, no sense of adventure left in people and no one to give you proper advice


Thanks for your support.


It might sound harsh, but, well, it seems to me that a plethora of Redditors are losers. Instead of going to a bar (sorry mate, that’s American for “pub”) to drown their sorrow in alcohol, they enjoy pontificating about subjects beyond their ken.


They also typically tend to enjoy bathing in adulation showered on them by a tyrannical majority of their fellow losers. (One of your former prime ministers was famously quoted as having opined, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.")






>> so I thought to invite you here (didn't fancy posting what I thought of some answers there and getting banned...again :-)


Thank you.


By now I guess I’ve created at least a score of accounts on Reddit over the years. I consider Reddit accounts I create to be disposable. I’ve been downvoted to oblivion, and banned so many times I’ve actually lost count. Pro Tip: create at least one Reddit account well in advance of using it because many subreddit prohibit new accounts from posting.






>> You clearly know the risks to yourself and if you kill a few potatoes in the process so what, it's all in the name of progress and I have a feeling it's more to do with your own health & safety operating that damn digger.


Like Elon Musk, the ignorant losers/trolls on Reddit who gleefully, yet incorrectly criticized my idea, were typically bullied in school. As a result of being traumatized by bullies they typically became obsessed with security at a young age.


In engineering projects, they typically manifest this obsession (what I characterize as mental disorder) by proffering inane suggestions which they strenuously defend as being “necessary and proper.” In other words, when many engineers engage in purportedly serious engineering discussions, they tend to actually engage in a sort of cathartic psychological “brain dump” as they seek to satisfy their need to discuss and placate a fear which at least consumes them, and sometimes torments them.


At the end of the day, when I am being charitable, I normally consider them to be incompetent liars who wantonly violate the scientific method in order to scratch their festering mental itch. But normally I tend to characterize them as losers or trolls.






>> Anywho, I think most of what you have mentioned is doable,


Unsurprisingly, I agree.






>> don't know if it would be industrial strength (although no reason why not if it's tested properly)


Initially, I want a solution that is "cheap and pretty good," not "expensive and industrial strength." Of course, later, if it failed to meet my needs, I could iterate to improve it.


Oh. Right. Sorry. I almost forgot: you are an engineer. Let me try to explain this to you in terms which might warm the cockles of your heart: the coefficient of static friction is normally far higher than that of dynamic friction. Ok. Yuk! That’s enough scientific jargon for me. In plain English, if you “get the ball rolling” it’s easier to keep it rolling so that you can, for example, surmount, say, a hill.






>> but at least before you piss money in the wind you can have a proof of concept quickly.


Most of the losers on Reddit who unfairly criticized my ideas seemed to presume I was going to buy a mini excavator tomorrow, and shortly thereafter set it loose to, I dunno, roam the streets of Manhattan to wreak havoc on throngs of innocent and unsuspecting New Yorkers.


Some of these Redditors might have had nightmares in which they saw women and children fleeing in horror during the opening scenes of a horror movie called, “Revenge of the Mini Excavator: AI is coming for you!” or “Why didn’t we Stop this Madman when we had the Chance!”


I have zero intention whatsoever of purchasing a mini excavator until I have first played around with a bunch of stepper motors that, say, push around some wooden blocks sitting on my desk.






>> The biggest enemy with this concept is going to be latency,


I don’t mean to seem snarky, yet I adamantly disagree.


Of course latency will be a fundamental limitation, yet it’s not even remotely close to what I would characterize as an “enemy.” I am convinced that for excavating and moving earth (as I have imagined) latency will almost certainly be little more than a minor annoyance to which I suppose I will soon become inured.


After all, I’m not trying to cut diamonds or perform brain surgery; rather, I’m trying to move earth. Yeah. Sure. For things like laser leveling of agricultural fields, precision is crucial. But generally-speaking, such as in my use case in particular, precision isn’t important. In other words, for this project, what an engineer might deem “pretty good”, I would probably deem “excellent” or even “superb.”


See, I don’t need much precision for this project. When considering inherent limitations (which, in this case, is latency) engineers tend to reflexively implicitly fret that the limitation they have identified will result in a "sub-optimal solution." When considered theoretically, almost all solutions are sub-optimal. I don’t think in those terms. Like most users, I want a solution that meets my needs.


Engineers tend to confuse benefits and features. Fundamentally, sensible users normally don’t focus on features; rather, sensible users normally focus on benefits. Engineers, by contrast, tend to focus on features instead of benefits.


In case you didn’t glean what I was trying to say, I was implicitly excoriating engineering professors and engineering curriculum designers. Let me be explicit: generally, I despise them for improperly educating and then unleashing a bunch of incompetent engineers into the world.


Even without your delightful-looking software, for a clever engineer (even one without any IoT experience) I suppose the project I want to create would be very easy to “get up and running” because, essentially, this project will allow a user to control a group of stepper motors via the web. To my non-engineering mind, that part seems only slightly more complex than a “Hello world” type of project.


I guess, as is the case with many IoT projects, a handful of edge cases might be vexing. I guess that, for example, redundant ESP32 deadman switches (which would work locally, that is, which would not need to be connected to the internet) would immediately halt one or more stepper motors when the mini excavator encounters a particular edge case.


After one or more stepper motors had been halted, the remote operator of the mini excavator (yours truly) would be able to manually solve the problem. In my mind I might think something like, “Oh yeah. Every time this happens, the mini excavator automatically shuts down. Then I need to do X, Y, and Z a couple/few times to get it working properly again.”






>> but as they say, there are many ways to peel a potato and I've designed ChipChop to have many peelers ;-) Trust me, what you want to achieve is much simpler than some stuff I work on.


I believe you.






>> I know you hate engineering but if you don't mind getting your hands a wee bit dirty for an hour you will be able to see how multi-ESP communication can work.


Actually, I do mind getting my hands dirty. Nonetheless, I frequently get my hands dirty because I need to. In this case, I am willing to get my hands dirty.


The following is a bit of a rant/wall-of-text but I want to be sure you understand my perspective.


As boastful as it might seem, I am a non-engineer who is a much better technical architect than most so-called engineers. I truly wish that weren’t the case because, yeah, I really do loathe engineering. I don’t possess the proper temperament.


See, I like to stop being “the main guy” after I create the functional architecture (The Functional Requirements). Yet I have invariably become the technical architect because most so-called engineers are little more than technicians. Furthermore, in my exp
fig_jam
13 Jul 2024

IoT mini digger!? am I reading this correctly, it's a real digger not for kids like car replicas, right?
Gizmo
13 Jul 2024

Oh dear me, that's a lot of Reddit induced mental pain! Still, nothing beats Stackoverflow :-)

Right, let's answer some of your points:

- Quick asides prelude

nah, the forum is exactly as it should be. I'm not using any software for it, I wrote the engine somewhat rather in a rush and until there are more posts and people start using it more rather than sending me emails I am not spending a micro-second more on it.
Why did I write it myself and not use something off the shelf? Because it's all bloatware built by a committee with more holes than a sieve (this forum's entire engine is around 500kb minified, including a custom in-memory database so a tad easier to manage and expand)

Is it sending a wrong message to potential new users!? I bloody whole heartedly hope so, last thing I need is a bunch of uppity snobs that weren't even born in 2003 and can only cope with whatever is the current fashionable UI replicated across the globe so everything looks the same.

UX? Sending notification emails is expensive (plus a ton of other factors), I've built-in the notifications emails but blocked it until it's genuinely warranted, I will most likely link it with the ChipChop web app so you get push notifications as I've built a dedicated server and the processing is a bit cheaper.

Can't copy and paste the text but know how to do it through the web inspector? That's the attitude Mr Non-Engineer, here some ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️, you are a keeper and you should be able to select text and copy now (no one mentioned it, took 4 seconds to fix...thanks)

- General Rant

Ditto to all of it (with less passion though, it's not worth the energy and a burst aneurism)

Some thoughts in no particular order

- what you call “brain dump" (<<< see, copied and pasted no problems :-) is defined in psychology as "mental masturbation", it's a thing :-)

- I don't think I would classify myself as an engineer, that's a part of what I do, big part but not everything; so, don't worry I don't talk engineer talk...more...ummm... common sense with a sprinkle of tech

- Reddit, trolls, sad people - leave them be to their own worlds, life's too short for arguments and can give you heartburn and haemorrhoids and wrinkles and hairy ass and...ummm...run out of nasty things, ah, yes, and eventually will make you dumber.

- Deadman switches - RF433 or bazooka

- Latency - this is not a nippy RC car, I envisage most of the operations will be pre-programmed and executed with a certain time required to complete. There's mass and inertia, have to be gentle so even stuff like 100ms latency shouldn't be a problem.
Alternative, a local mini ChipChop hub just depends how far you will be from it, if it's within WiFi range then it's pretty straight forward.

- Getting your hands dirty - no sympathy whatsoever, here, 🎻 (<<< it's tiny). You'll be fine, I'll write a personal apology note to your manicurist if you chip a nail in the process.

That's it from me, need to do a bit of woodworking around the house, going to use a new router (wood router, not WiFi) let's see if I'll have all fingers by the time I'm done 🪚🖐️😱 I'm used to the CNC, this handheld shit can be a slippy bugger.


Oh, your Dev Console is setup, sent you an email earlier

Laters

G


Gizmo
13 Jul 2024

Hey figgy, yes it's a proper size piece of machinery, I think the idea is to use actuators or servos to mechanically push the levers.
Any suggestions? 😄



Attached images
SteveElves
07 Dec 2024

I love the idea of an automated digger roaming the neighborhood, rooting out invasive plants! Ought to be able to incorporate some visual pattern recognition stuff so it doesn't accidentally dig up old Mrs. Johnson's prize petunias. I can't wait to see how this turns out!

I'm a retired industrial controls specialist - a process control technologist, if you like. I've worked with a few really good engineers over the years, and for the most part I'd say that the good ones came to engineering after having done some other, more practical stuff - trade school or equivalent. A lot of the newly-minted ones just out of uni are pretty good at math and some CAD/CAM stuff, but are really a danger to themselves and others when operating complex machinery like screwdrivers. And they are really hopeless at designing UI's that are actually usable.